DK changes

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Aona
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Re: DK changes

Post by Aona » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:39 am

Erandus wrote:
Riksk wrote: The depth of the mechanics are what keeps it interesting.
this is why I still love warrior tanks.
Have to admit, I agree. Out of all my characters, leveling 70-80 as prot warrior was the most fun. It's weird, "loving to tank".
Aona - Marksman Hunter
Axeal - Purdy DK tnak
Kymia - Protection Warrior and foot rest for the tall ones

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djinux
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Re: DK changes

Post by djinux » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:37 am

The bit of Tanking I have done on my DK i have found much more enjoyable than it is on my Pally. Although I think I am better at using the tools the paladin has available to tank I also have more experience with it as well. But I do really enjoy frost spec tanking.
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Aona
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Re: DK changes

Post by Aona » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:09 am

djinux wrote:The bit of Tanking I have done on my DK i have found much more enjoyable than it is on my Pally. Although I think I am better at using the tools the paladin has available to tank I also have more experience with it as well. But I do really enjoy frost spec tanking.
I know this comes down to differences of opinion, but I can say I have a lot of experience tanking with a Paladin, Warrior and a DK. I levelled and tanked from 60-70 on my pally (who is now my healer), my warrior from 70-80, and my dk also from 70-80.

The pally was the easiest. Drop consecrate, ..., ..., profit.

The DK was the most boring. I'm sorry, but waiting on runes to come back up is terribly boring- which is why I don't play a rogue either. Drop DnD, disease x2 and then pestilence, then sit there waiting. And it was also frustrating that if something bad happened middle of a fight, if my runes and runic power were low, there was nothing I could do to save people. No aoe taunt, etc.

The warrior had best of both worlds and then some. It isn't easy; Thunderclap isn't nearly as good as consecrate or DnD, so there is a challenge keeping aggro on all the mobs from the threat hungry DK dpsers (Amy, I swear, get some threat reduction!). I'm always pushing buttons, there's no "down time" for warriors. If you aren't constantly pushing a button, even between GCDs (to keep heroic strike on), you're doing it wrong. That is fun. A lot of aggro-based "Oh @#$!" buttons, like group taunts in case you just blew your thunderclap and shockwave right as a pat aggros because of the hunter pets. :P It's insanely fun and balls-to-the-walls, I don't pull with my gun anymore. I charge right in and smack all the mobs with an aoe stun to the face while the dps'ers and healer are like "whoa where'd he go?" Let's not forget too how well the warrior handles the caster mobs. (I'm sorry Erandus, but you are wrong, you are better tanking the caster in the Iron Council fight :P) You have 2 forms of silence (shield bash, heroic throw via talents), 3 forms of stuns (which the iron council boss is not immune to), and if they are ALL down, spell reflect.

I could go on and on about how great the warrior is but I'm sure I'll get the TLDR posts afterwards. I may be biased, but I can at least say I've tried them all (short of the druid, but meh its just a warrior clone).

I will say the problem with warrior tanks is they are insanely hard to Master. 90% of the time if you pug a warrior tank they will stink. They are like the "Huntards" of the tanking classes. Hard to learn, even harder to master. Versus a paladin who's easy to learn and difficult to master. (I mean no offense to our pally tanks, it takes a great player to make a pally tank work as an MT in a raid, and ours [mainly Vailcor] has mastered it well. I don't know any of our other pally tanks, sorry!
Aona - Marksman Hunter
Axeal - Purdy DK tnak
Kymia - Protection Warrior and foot rest for the tall ones

Raekin
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Re: DK changes

Post by Raekin » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:46 pm

Aona wrote:
djinux wrote:The bit of Tanking I have done on my DK i have found much more enjoyable than it is on my Pally. Although I think I am better at using the tools the paladin has available to tank I also have more experience with it as well. But I do really enjoy frost spec tanking.
I know this comes down to differences of opinion, but I can say I have a lot of experience tanking with a Paladin, Warrior and a DK. I levelled and tanked from 60-70 on my pally (who is now my healer), my warrior from 70-80, and my dk also from 70-80.

The pally was the easiest. Drop consecrate, ..., ..., profit.

The DK was the most boring. I'm sorry, but waiting on runes to come back up is terribly boring- which is why I don't play a rogue either. Drop DnD, disease x2 and then pestilence, then sit there waiting. And it was also frustrating that if something bad happened middle of a fight, if my runes and runic power were low, there was nothing I could do to save people. No aoe taunt, etc.

The warrior had best of both worlds and then some. It isn't easy; Thunderclap isn't nearly as good as consecrate or DnD, so there is a challenge keeping aggro on all the mobs from the threat hungry DK dpsers (Amy, I swear, get some threat reduction!). I'm always pushing buttons, there's no "down time" for warriors. If you aren't constantly pushing a button, even between GCDs (to keep heroic strike on), you're doing it wrong. That is fun. A lot of aggro-based "Oh @#$!" buttons, like group taunts in case you just blew your thunderclap and shockwave right as a pat aggros because of the hunter pets. :P It's insanely fun and balls-to-the-walls, I don't pull with my gun anymore. I charge right in and smack all the mobs with an aoe stun to the face while the dps'ers and healer are like "whoa where'd he go?" Let's not forget too how well the warrior handles the caster mobs. (I'm sorry Erandus, but you are wrong, you are better tanking the caster in the Iron Council fight :P) You have 2 forms of silence (shield bash, heroic throw via talents), 3 forms of stuns (which the iron council boss is not immune to), and if they are ALL down, spell reflect.

I could go on and on about how great the warrior is but I'm sure I'll get the TLDR posts afterwards. I may be biased, but I can at least say I've tried them all (short of the druid, but meh its just a warrior clone).

I will say the problem with warrior tanks is they are insanely hard to Master. 90% of the time if you pug a warrior tank they will stink. They are like the "Huntards" of the tanking classes. Hard to learn, even harder to master. Versus a paladin who's easy to learn and difficult to master. (I mean no offense to our pally tanks, it takes a great player to make a pally tank work as an MT in a raid, and ours [mainly Vailcor] has mastered it well. I don't know any of our other pally tanks, sorry!
This is why 95% of DK tanks we pug with have no idea how to tank right an wipe the group constantly. Its also why the majority of high end guilds say that DKs make the best tanks. Its all about knowledge of the class and management of abilities and cooldowns used at the correct time.

simple example... running a heroic, first pull there are 4 mobs, the DK tank, from a distance Death grips a single mob and starts hammering on it, drops death and decay. .. 2 adds that hadn't hit death and decay yet runs to the healer who is trying to keep everyone alive, death grip is on cooldown. Dead healer.

Every class has a deeper aspect to them than what you see on the surface, that only loads of practice and research about your role can help make you better. Gear is only half the battle.

except maybe mages i've only got like 3 buttons i press =P

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djinux
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Re: DK changes

Post by djinux » Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:56 am

Raekin what spec of DK tank were you in a run with that did that?

One of the ways I like to initiate a pull while tanking on my DK is to drop DnD behind or right around me and then pull with howling blast to get Frost Fever ticking on multiple mobs then when they close melee with me I hit Plague Strike, Pest and that usually gets aoe threat going well enough that unless someone just dpses the hell out of a mob that I dont currently have targeted they might surpass me but I also like to work in a blood boil as I have the cooldown for it.. my 2 copper on this is that I think Death Knights are a great deal of fun to tank with.
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Erandus
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Re: DK changes

Post by Erandus » Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:50 pm

@Aona: I know that I handle the caster mob well as a Warrior. The reaon I've been tanking Steelbreaker is because until recently our other tanks were considerably behind my EH, but since they've caught up we should be fine to make the cut over. I was actually planning to see who wanted to try it this week, but as it's 4th of july, I won't be around anyway.

-Note: Not badmouthing our other tanks, you guys do a great job. It's just that my schedule landed perfectly to raid EVERY ulduar progression night since the release, and it gave me a head-start.

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Aona
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Re: DK changes

Post by Aona » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:10 pm

All our tanks are very good. I understand what you're saying now Erandus, makes sense :)
Aona - Marksman Hunter
Axeal - Purdy DK tnak
Kymia - Protection Warrior and foot rest for the tall ones

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Excellion
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Re: DK changes

Post by Excellion » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:12 pm

wot
Excellion || Dropzone

The Death Knight formerly known as Sikyo...

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